Curse

enter_the_zone · Feb 15, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

Yes, it is. Really, really, mind-numbingly boring.

Right, lets make this simple... Titles are all there is left to do in GW PVE for most people. To get a sufficient number of titles or even just to max some, requires playing in HM. - gives the game more playability

Never said it didn't. Point is, it's pretty much required to play in HM at some point.

So all those "play in NM" people should just get a grip. He's not saying it's too hard, he's saying it's boring. Which it is. Which you would know, if you had Legendary Guardian on a ranger, and had to repeatedly grind HM Handbooks to max silly EoTN titles, since VQ is way too slow.

- i have leg. guardian on a ranger and have LMotN and leg vanq...I understand it can get dull but tbh...play more fun builds and even the hardest vanqs (jokos / arbor / lornars) can be done in a max of 2h (without gimmick lameway).

See, now that's my point. Even with different builds it's dull. Also annoys me that some classes are severly gimped in HM compared to others.

Believe me, it is. Many of the dungeons in EoTN are either a ) only runable with a gimmick build or b) require mass use of consets. If a decent balanced team can't beat a dungeon reliably, there is a serious, serious issue. Hard Mode should be hard, not virtually impossible. - now your just QQ for the sake of you are not good at the game...no dungeon should require consets (par maybe duncan HM) only runable with gimmick? LOL frostmaws HM is easily runable with a ranger h/h with 2'sin and a nec heroes and random henchies - its about being able to think outside the box (and avoid gimmick crap)

Yeah, I suck. Actually, dungeons aren't my thing, so I'm largely going on what most people have said on this. 60dp sees you back at town, so at least a powerstone or honeycomb is usually needed, unless you do that trick with the hero having no rez. not a full conset, but a consumable. Point is, they should be challenging, without being stupidly, ridiculously hard. Bear in mind, I only have 3 PVE skills available, since I don't particularly like playing with others. If I have to play with others to complete a dungeon, that's already /fail, so I'd rather just pay a runner to do it and not have the frustration of teams failing.

Try to tell me the Blooming Nettles in Bogroots are balanced in HM, I dare you. ....in HM... - "DAZE SAYS HAI

Yeah, BHA + Epidemic. Point is, having to target spec like that for a single mob is unbalanced in and of itself. Leaving aside that spawns can totally screw that strategy as well.

And the fact that a large portion of normal skills are almost totally useless in HM IS a problem. - certain skills fail in all forms of the game nuff said...all skills can be used in HM, their usefullness and power is a different matter it all depends of whether they sync up nicely with your team-build

True enough, but HM makes the disparity glaring, typically because armor ignoring damage shines so much in HM. A result of the idiotic stat boosting approach.

Giving mobs better builds and balanced teams would have been a better start. - mobs in HM DO have better skill bars

Yeah, but the mobs aren't balanced and better isn't saying much for their bars.

And yeah, casual PVP is a lot more fun than HM anything.

By casual, I mean JQ/FA/AB etc.

BenjZee · Feb 15, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Sorry i don't understnad how adding HM whilst keeping the same gw made it boring...I think the games great

UnChosen · Feb 16, 2009, 12:20 AM // 00:20

HM is definitely boring if you play a certain class. The problem is that everything in HM has pumped armor and HP, so the ele, wars, rangers, paragons, sins, dervishes all have problem dealing any decent damage. So what happens instead is that all ranger/derv gets kicked to the side, paragon is reduced to SY! spam utility bitch, war is kept for the knockdown/splinter spam, ele becomes a blind/ward bot, and sins is exclusively perma tank.

So it becomes a game of every one using utility while sloowwwlllyyy wearing down lvl 24+ monsters, yes it works, but its boring as hell. It mostly becomes monster taking longer to kill rather than "harder" to kill.

So what do people do instead? Migrate to the two classes unaffected thanks to armor ignoring damage, necros and mesmers....hence the popularity of sabway/discordway/cryway. Since CoP and SF and SY will probably be nerfed the options will be even less later.

Skyy High · Feb 16, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

OP's problem is he expected eles to be big damage dealers, and when it turned out that they make better support chars, he got all pissy. Whoops, too bad; if you want big numbers in HM and that's what makes the game fun for you, run a different class.

Yawgmoth · Feb 16, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I disagree with OP's - it wasn't HM itself that made GW PvE boring - the problem is it became an online Single-Player game.

The only thing HM lacks is a decent Global LFG system. GW sucks as a singleplayer game, Hero+Henching HM vanquishes and stuff IS incredibly boring! Playing with a bunch of other people can be a great fun, but finding a PuG that wants to vanq the same area as you is a horrible pain comparable to just solo H/H'ing it.

A centralized LFG solution is the number 1 need of GW PvE, above extra storage or a trading system.

wilebill · Feb 16, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Back when Prophecies was released there was no hard mode, none needed. Because PvE had not been nerfed. Normal was fairly tough with hench, there being no heroes either. Oh, and loot? Rained from the sky. No hard mode needed.

Then came the farmers with bots. Nerf the loot. Then came the hordes of wimps, "oh ... nooo ... it's ... toooo harrrrrd!" Nerf the game. Then came PvP balance. Nerf skills. So eventually we get to here, which is where nobody, Anet included, wanted to go.

Yeah, I play WoW since it came out. Same sort of thing happened there. Probably most online games. I hope that GW 2 is more immune to all this.

glacialphoenix · Feb 16, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

OP isn't complaining HM is too hard, he's saying it's too boring. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, he shouldn't expect big damage in HM, considering everything's got buffed armor and HP.

Quote:

So what do people do instead? Migrate to the two classes unaffected thanks to armor ignoring damage, necros and mesmers....hence the popularity of sabway/discordway/cryway. Since CoP and SF and SY will probably be nerfed the options will be even less later.

This. Eles have more use than just damage, it's true. On the other hand... lots of them are going to want to do damage anyway, and it's kind of tragic that if they want to do so, they have to use a Mesmer spell. (Not that there are that many mezzes in PvE.)

It's easy to say, 'go back to NM'. It's easy to say, "OK, then go play a mez or a necro." But if you've invested time and effort in that ele, that's quite a lot to give up to start a brand new character.

That being said, OP still has to deal with it, and I think you're expecting too much to want the same huge numbers in HM that you do in NM.

garethporlest18 · Feb 16, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

I think the OP is trying to say HM limited the variety of builds you can use compared to normal mode. That 1 or 2 builds are the only builds that work for each class.

It's not the case as one of the posters on the first page said. It's possible to use a variety of different builds to do HM, especially outside of missions (missions suck btw). You just have to know how to utilize the skill bar you have.

FoxBat · Feb 16, 2009, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Go earth AoEs with [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor]. Not bad damage and plenty of KD/blind utility.

[Assassin's Promise] can also make [Intensity] work, though I still find the latter a pain to use.

Day Trooper · Feb 16, 2009, 02:55 AM // 02:55

HM definitely made the game more fun for me...

Imho, what makes Guild Wars such an awesome game is all the different skills to pick and choose from.

The OP states that eles don't deal as much damage in HM - which is true due to the extra armor bonus for monsters. Like the OP, my main too is an ele, and so I can feel a bit of his frustration not being able to use ele-nuke spells in HM as most pug-groups require cryway and such (which is one reason I do a lot with h/h, as I can do whatever I'd like).

However - you just have to experiment with different things, and ultimately you'll find something that works (and in the end, hopefully feel some satisfaction from 'figuring things out on your own').

So I guess it's your mindset. If you want to run the exact same NM builds in HM - then chances are you'll have to adapt and thus be disappointed. But, if you don't mind trying out new things - then you'll definitely find HM more fun than NM...

AKB48 · Feb 16, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Get used to it, you aren't anymore special than the rest of us, and sure, after vanquishing half a dozen or so areas, HM is boring.

But none of us complained

What can you do? Cry your eyes out or vent your lungs out? It's really pointless, nothing is gonna change. The best way to avoid this is to quit GW for several months and then come back, you should find something to do.

Riceboi · Feb 16, 2009, 03:21 AM // 03:21

It's funny that whenever someone complains about anything, everyone automatically says, "so you suck at GW" or "get better at gw". LOL

strong elitist attitude here.

ValaOfTheFens · Feb 16, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

HM sort of saved PvE. Without HM there'd be no reason to play any campaign more than once. Farming is boring after a while and NM farming is like playing with your hands behind your back and blindfolded. GW's problems have more to do with skill and class balancing than the HM PvE experience. HM would be more fun if every fad farming build wasn't nerfed or the runs made impossible. I went to Tomb yesterday to do a run for the fun of it and its all duo farming or noob NM runs. Isn't it sort of sad that GW's beginner dungeon has degenerated to farming when there used to be actual groups doing clears at all hours of the day and night? *sigh* Overcorrection is rampant in this game and that makes it more boring than HM does.

dr love · Feb 16, 2009, 04:02 AM // 04:02

run sabway. any class can do it and it eats everything, except elite areas.

Greedy Gus · Feb 16, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

The OP's problem is pretty strictly limited to being abruptly stripped of his/her notion that eles are a damage class intended to walk around blowing stuff up, and coming to terms that playing a support class is boring.

Nightow · Feb 16, 2009, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

The OP's problem is pretty strictly limited to being abruptly stripped of his/her notion that eles are a damage class intended to walk around blowing stuff up, and coming to terms that playing a support class is boring.

And yet when players think of mesmers in pve are they supposed to think of nukers? Arenanet really did a 360° from what several of their caster professions started out as to what they have become in some cases.

Eragon Zarroc · Feb 16, 2009, 05:23 AM // 05:23

for one thing, ele dmging skills are fire magic, lol. if u think HM is boring because u can't do dmg, then ur running the wrong builds, lol.

mrvrod · Feb 16, 2009, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Guess what, it's NOT blasphemy to say that certain aspects of GW were NOT THOUGHT OUT!

Since when is it acceptable in an rpg to let the gamer roll his character and then make it impossible to get passed an area WITH that character?!

I have changed my builds. I have rolled different characters, or changed professions. I have gone pug. I know all the ways I have to change my play to beat the hardest areas of this game. But that's not what the op wanted to talk about!

Why is it that certain areas, or missions, or master quests damn near require 3 minion masters, and others it's immediate fail if you bring even 1 mm? Is that what rpgs have become now? And do we just shut up and accept it?

Jeez, sorry Jimbo. I know ranger is your fav class, but for this area we need a whammo, 2 SFers, 2 MMs, 2 Monks, and a good spirit Rit.

zwei2stein · Feb 16, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

Guess what, it's NOT blasphemy to say that certain aspects of GW were NOT THOUGHT OUT!

Since when is it acceptable in an rpg to let the gamer roll his character and then make it impossible to get passed an area WITH that character?!

I have changed my builds. I have rolled different characters, or changed professions. I have gone pug. I know all the ways I have to change my play to beat the hardest areas of this game. But that's not what the op wanted to talk about!

Why is it that certain areas, or missions, or master quests damn near require 3 minion masters, and others it's immediate fail if you bring even 1 mm? Is that what rpgs have become now? And do we just shut up and accept it?

Jeez, sorry Jimbo. I know ranger is your fav class, but for this area we need a whammo, 2 SFers, 2 MMs, 2 Monks, and a good spirit Rit.

There is no single area where what you said is even close to being true.

Not even remotely close.

If someone thinks that there is the one and only 'best' way to beat something in PvE, and can't make anything else work it pretty much equals to not knowing how to play.

mrvrod · Feb 16, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

There is no single area where what you said is even close to being true.

Not even remotely close.

If someone thinks that there is the one and only 'best' way to beat something in PvE, and can't make anything else work it pretty much equals to not knowing how to play.

My bad, I guess I just haven't learned anything since beta.